Comments for page "Galactic Plane"

Re: 3 million years ago?

Sat, 13 Mar 2010 00:59:55 +0000

There was the Great Dying, 250 million years ago. I'm not aware of any scientific study showing a correlation between this and the Galactic Year. The plot of dates of extinction events shows many more in the period 300 - 500 million years ago than recently, so if this author want to cherry-pick his extinction event, I'm sure he could link it to whatever time pattern he wants.

Re: 3 million years ago?

Fri, 12 Mar 2010 16:17:06 +0000

So everyone is wrong when they say there is an extinction every 250 million years? Such as The Great Dying?

Re: 3 million years ago?

Fri, 12 Mar 2010 01:40:31 +0000

There's no evidence for mass extinctions every galactic year. He's just making it up.

Re: 3 million years ago?

Fri, 12 Mar 2010 01:34:01 +0000

And he is saying that 2012 is the start of a new galactic year, in which every 225 million years there has been a major extinction. Thats what I am trying to ask. Is it really the start of a new galactic year? Are there really mass extinctions recorded ever 225 million years when we start a new one? What could of caused them? I apologize for all the questions…

Re: 3 million years ago?

Thu, 11 Mar 2010 23:17:07 +0000

No, a galactic year is the period of the solar system's orbit around the galaxy, about 225 million years. The period of the vertical oscillation of the solar system about the central plane is about 60 - 70 million years, so we complete more than 3 of these oscillations in a galactic year.
The important point is that we passed through the central plane in the last 3 million years and won't return through it for about another 30 million years.

Re: 3 million years ago?

Thu, 11 Mar 2010 22:32:05 +0000

So we won't finish another galactic year for 30 million more years?

Re: 3 million years ago?

Thu, 11 Mar 2010 21:30:32 +0000

Not for 30 million years or so, as explained here: http://www.2012hoax.org/galactic-plane

Re: 3 million years ago?

Thu, 11 Mar 2010 21:09:01 +0000

So wait…we will be at the same point in our solar system where there were past mass extinctions? That doesn't exactly sound promising…

Re: 3 million years ago?

Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:22:28 +0000

I'll give the full link, to make this easier to follow: http://www.angelicscorn.co.uk/2012%203%20years%20after%20life.htm

When it comes to space, our knowledge is very limited and we are only discovering things today that the ancients already knew thousands of years ago.

As soon as I see a statement like this, my baloney detectors switch on.
I'll deal with the section on the galactic plane because the author seems hopelessly muddled.

This conclusion was draw after counting the stars divided in to grids, but some of the stars were not counted and only stars of a certain class was counted.

I'm not aware that this is true. Where does this statement come from?

This view point however is completely wrong, because our solar system is moving west in other words we are moving up on this illustration and we are not circling the Galaxy on the path as illustrated on that image.

The illustration is accurate (surprisingly enough).

The Milky Way does not have one black hole at the center but several which are aligned in a straight line forming a bar.

There is evidence of one black hole. There is no evidence for several.

This wobbling is also used to explain why there is an extinction event every 65million years

There is no evidence for extinction events at regular 65 million year intervals.

If this is true it means that one of these stars will have a greater effect then the others, and since this has been happening over 4.5 billion years, where is this red giant we are being pulled towards?

We are not pulled by individual stars but by the aggregate mass of the galaxy, which is concentrated towards the central plane.

At the moment until the above theory is proven beyond any doubt the image below are the most accurate illustration of our solar systems path around the Milky Way if we take current proven knowledge in account.

The solar system stays close to the central plane of the galaxy. The wild excursion shown in this diagram is totally wrong.

According to the ancients and scientists from the 1960’s we will be passing the galactic plane at the 21st of December 2012

This claim has already been debunked here: http://www.2012hoax.org/galactic-plane
Ancients knew nothing about the solar system's motion around the galaxy. The position of the central plane of the galaxy is uncertain by several light years and is impossible to define exactly anyway. Our solar system takes a period of the order of a million years to pass through this zone. To tie this passage down to a single specified date is ridiculous.

the problem will occur ones we line up with our galaxy’s central elongated beam.

Gravity does not operate in preferential directions. Gravity depends on mass and distance. It doesn't matter if this alleged 'bar' is aligned end-on or across, if its mean distance is the same, the gravitational pull will be the same.

The author of this article illustrates the point that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. He/she appears to have a little knowledge of science, but then takes the 'blind them with science' approach by trying to incorporate various unproven beliefs as fact. Anyone who does have some knowledge of science can see straight through it.

Re: 3 million years ago?

Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:23:44 +0000

This is from an article on http://www.angelicscorn.co.uk/
When it comes to space, our knowledge is very limited and we are only discovering things today that the ancients already knew thousands of years ago. The reason why we know so little is because modern humans only started to explore space recently and space is very very big.
When it comes to 2012 and space, the range of opinions, ideas and theories become even more various. The underling reason for this is because our knowledge about space it self is very limited. When one look at the 2012 theories there are 6 main view points that is generally theorized about, namely planet X, the galactic plane, meteor strikes, extinction, sun flares and Alien visitors.
Planet X
One of the 2012 theories is that an unknown planet will crash into earth in 2012. In today’s modern world we have multi billion dollar telescopes in space, million dollar ground base telescopes on earth and millions of private telescopes looking at the night sky and non of them has seen planet X.
Meteor strike
There are millions of meteors, asteroids and comets in space and some day one of them will strike earth, in fact thousands of little meteors and asteroids strikes earth everyday. There is however no big asteroid, meteor or comet on its way to earth at this point in time. The reason why we can say this is because there are millions of eyes looking up in to space everyday and no one has see one on it way to earth. A big meteor, asteroid or comet impact could wipe thousands of species out on earth but that will not happen in 2012 but it will happen someday in the future.
Alien Visitors
This is a very popular theory, but we have no conclusive prove to support this theory, but it is definitely a theory that needs a good look at. Most of the religions on earth believe in the return or the coming of a supreme being from the heavens. Many of the ancient cultures had knowledge we are only discovering today. There is a tribe in Africa whom worships a planet which circles the star Vega. They say a visitor from that planet visited them and taught them, they even have a festival based on this planet new year. To make things worse that planet does exist and their festival is based exactly on the planets year.
Sun flare
Mankind has observed solar activity sins 1612 when sun spots where first discovered by modern man. Over this period we have observed that massive solar storm are preceded by quite periods, we have also observed that global cooling that’s place during quite periods. We have also observed that the solar activity runs in 11 year cycles. We have also experienced what large solar storms can do to us on the ground. In 1859 almost all the electronic equipment on earth was destroyed by a massive solar storm, a few years back a smaller solar storm took out Quebec’s power grid. To make things even worse we have also discovered that the earth magnetos sphere, which protects us from solar storms are weakening. The reason for that is that over thousands of years the earth’s magnetic poles switch. Evidence for this has been found in lava flows, ice cores and earth deposits. Just before the magnetos sphere switches around the magnetos sphere weakens. At this moment in time earth’s magnetos sphere has a ‘hole’ in it. This ‘hole’ is located between South Africa and South America and its growing. The term ‘hole’ however is incorrect. This area between South Africa and South America is where the magnetic field is flowing from south to north instead of from north to south like on the rest of the planet. This means that any solar storm today will have more effect on us the in the past.
The sun has been very quite over the last few years which according to our nearly 400years of experience mean that the sun is preparing for a massive solar storm predicted to occur in 2012, the end of the next 11year cycle. There is however a part of the puzzle that does not fit. In the past 400years fewer sun spots meant global cooling, jet all the ice sheets on the planet is melting and infrared scans says that the entire solar system is heating up. Either all our 400year old data is wrong or something else is coming into play this time around.
Extinction
Extinctions have been part of life on this planet since it started to form about 1 billion years ago. This article is not going to discuss extinctions it self but when it happened in relation to a Galactic year. The image below shows the following; ever 250million years there is a massive extinction. Our solar system takes 250million years to complete one Galactic year. Every halve galactic year there is a small extinction and ever quarter galactic year life seems to blossom, excluding for the meteor impact 75 million years ago which killed off the Dinosaurs. There is a small possibility that on the 21st of December 2012 that we will complete our third Galactic year and we will be at the same area in space where the 2 biggest extinction events the planet has ever known, have taken place.
The Galactic Plane
There are four main stream views on the Galactic plane, we will have an over view on all four of these main stream views pointing out their faults and plus points.
The newest view point is that the solar system will not be crossing the galactic plane in 2012 or anytime in the near future. This conclusion was draw after counting the stars divided in to grids, but some of the stars were not counted and only stars of a certain class was counted. That brings up the question: Can we really believe information that has excluded some information in its calculations to be true?
Another view point is illustrated by the image below. According to this view point the earth aligns with the Galactic plane twice a year. This view point however is completely wrong, because our solar system is moving west in other words we are moving up on this illustration and we are not circling the Galaxy on the path as illustrated on that image. Another conclusion that was drawn from this illustration was that the center of the Galaxy always pulls on our solar system at the same strength as we orbit the Galaxy. This is also wrong. The Milky Way does not have one black hole at the center but several which are aligned in a straight line forming a bar. To view a photo of the Milky Way and other galaxies click here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lATU1TbKaEM
The image below shows the Milky Way. On this image it is very clear that the points on the central bar is pulling stars in while no stars are entering the center, there for the gravity at the end off the bar is stronger and we will experience a greater gravitational pull on our solar system when passing these points.
Another theory is illustrated by the image below. This theory says that the solar system is wobbling its way around the solar system. This theory states that this wobble takes about 65million years according to some or 88million years according to others. This wobbling is also used to explain why there is an extinction event every 65million years and also answers the question why we are moving west at this point in time. There is however three questions this theory has to answer. Since the stars are spread apart form each other by billions of miles of space and space it self has no gratify how can we be pulled towards an empty section of space? They answered this question by saying that it is the red giant stars that pulls us back. If this is true it means that one of these stars will have a greater effect then the others, and since this has been happening over 4.5 billion years, where is this red giant we are being pulled towards? As jet there is no answer. If this theory is correct, why is it so difficult to determent where the galactic plane is if we could just measure the solar systems acceleration and deceleration to determent our position in respect to Galactic plane? As jet there is no answer.
At the moment until the above theory is proven beyond any doubt the image below are the most accurate illustration of our solar systems path around the Milky Way if we take current proven knowledge in account.
In Conclusion.
According to the ancients and scientists from the 1960’s we will be passing the galactic plane at the 21st of December 2012, and until scientists can use a different method to the reduction method, which discounts some of the information, are found to prove differently we will be passing thou the Galactic plane on the 21st of December 2012.
This on it self however does not prove to be a problem on its own; the problem will occur ones we line up with our galaxy’s central elongated beam.
The fact that the two biggest extinction events took place in our current time period, the escalating seismic activity on the planet, the heating of the solar system during a period where cooling was suppose to take place, should all serve as warning signs. Something is happening.

Re: Proof

Thu, 15 Oct 2009 00:51:49 +0000

Thank you for pointing out that oversight.

Here is the reference: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v316/n6030/abs/316706a0.html

I will correct the article to include the reference. Thanks again.

Proof

Wed, 14 Oct 2009 21:40:58 +0000

Quote: "We have shown that the Solar System passes through the galactic plane every 33 million years or so, and that we last passed through it about 3 million years ago. We are therefore not due to pass through it again in 2012."
Citation is needed for things like that. I was looking for the source of data that gave rise to these statement, aimed at calming people down with happy, blind 'fact', but I found none here. I'll look more closely, but that's not as important as my recommendation that you present more than just lovely 'don't worry, this is the real truth' sort of statement. You need to make the actual data and qualified interpretation of the data that justifies the statements VERY clear. Having said that, scientists dont agree on what the actual evidence is telling them. There are scientists who make a good case for the galactic plane theory. Lets see the data, a guiding article on explaining the data and then we can be more informed about making up our minds.

Re: Thanks

Sun, 21 Jun 2009 06:58:17 +0000

Hi Josh;

The prehistoric magnetic field can be measured as far as its strength and polarity by examining certain crystals embedded in some kinds of rocks. I'm a bit foggy on the details, but the science behind it is quite solid.

One of the things that can be observed on the earth today is the 'magnetic striping' of the sea-bed around spreading centers (as in the atlantic rift zone). The geologic deposits record the strength and direction of the earths magnetic field over the course of millions of years. This was major evidence supporting the Plate Tectonics theory.

I would suggest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_tectonics#Explanation_of_magnetic_striping and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_magnetic_field for more details.

Thanks

Sun, 21 Jun 2009 06:41:22 +0000

So is there any evidence out there that people use to show that there have been polar shifts. I've heard some stuff about volcanos that have different magnetic fields but that's about it. Are these simply conjectures based on the pattern of the earth today or can geologic arguments be given?

Re: 3 million years ago?

Sun, 21 Jun 2009 06:30:56 +0000

Hi Josh;

I'm not sure how much more we could touch on the movement of the solar system through the milky way as a whole. The point of this particular page is to refute and debunk the specific claim that the solar system will pass through the central plane of the galaxy in 2012.

As far as evidence, the bibliography gives a citation to a specific source, specifically:

McFadden, Lucy-Ann; Weissman, Paul Robert; Johnson, Torrence V.; 2007 Encyclopedia of the solar system, Academic Press, 2007. ISBN 0120885891, 9780120885893

as well as an online source. We do not yet have a citation for the primary literature.

You say:

All these scientific articles seem to point to a young earth.

That claim does not appear to be consistent with the contents of this article. The evidence indicates that the Earth is somewhat older than 4.5 billion years.

If you say that this happened 3 million years ago, well… wouldn't that mean that 3 million years ago there was devastation that was seen today.

No, not necessarily. There is an hypothesis that the passage of the solar system through the plane of the galaxy may cause an increased chance of bombardment. However, the 'plane' is fairly thick, on the order of several light years. So it is likely (if this hypothesis is true) that the chances of bombardment are increased during a few million years, and not tied to a specific date with any precision.

And these articles about polar shifts that happen every 300,000 or so years being so calamitous, coming from people who teach that it took millions of years for us to evolve.

Actually that's not true at all. The ideas that polar shifts (assuming you mean magnetic polar shifts) are calamitous are coming from pseudo-scientists. Most scientists in the earth-sciences fields believe that magnetic pole shifts are frequent in geologic time, but do not occur on a regular cycle, and do not appear to be associated with mass extinctions or increases in mutation rates.

This has nothing to do with the fact that it took billions of years for us to evolve.

3 million years ago?

Sun, 21 Jun 2009 06:07:58 +0000

You say that the last time we passed through the center of the disk was 3 million years ago. Don't you think this should be something you should touch more on? What evidence is there for such an event occuring? Is this pure speculation based on angles? All these scientific articles seem to point to a young earth. If you say that this happened 3 million years ago, well… wouldn't that mean that 3 million years ago there was devastation that was seen today. And these articles about polar shifts that happen every 300,000 or so years being so calamitous, coming from people who teach that it took millions of years for us to evolve.