Hello to you all I have tried so hard to convince myself
2012 is bs
But everyday something new pops up.
And this time it isint a YouTube troll
This one is straight out of cornell university
That insists the moons orbit is no longer the same
Please type on google moons orbit wrong and you will see also videos about this on YouTube. Some also claim that the sun rises sometimes 5 minutes late or early
And name it on nibiru or nemesis or whatever it is that causing all the planets to get knocked out of orbit can someone please explain this to me since it's freaking me out especially when it's coming from a reliable source such as Cornell university
Thanks.
As soon as I saw mention of Cornell University, I knew that it must be a reference to ArXiv, which is an archive of scientific papers which range from the sensible to the downright stupid. This archive is merely administered by Cornell University and the content of each paper is, in general, nothing to do with them.
The Cornell connection is often used by people trying to defend crackpot science who say "Look, it's from Cornell University. You wouldn't call them crackpots would you?" There are examples in this forum here, here and here.
Rest assured that the Moon's orbit is the same. Only last week, there was an eclipse of the Moon. Did it occur exactly as predicted? Of course it did. There are also the laser reflectors left on the Moon by Apollo astronauts. These enable the Moon's distance to be measured down to an accuracy of a few centimetres. Have these measurements suddenly come up wrong? Not that I know of.
Other claims such as planets 'knocked out of orbit' are quite common on YouTube, but the boring facts are that the solar system is behaving perfectly normally and the people making these claims are just cranks, liars and attention-seekers. Sun rising 5 minutes early? Wouldn't that have thrown the eclipse timings off? You can rest assured that it's all nonsense.
Thank you for your reply it helped alot
But about the other planets.
I think I herd on the news 1 that they are heating up for some reason
Why is that happening? Thanks.
The planets "heating up" is a canard that often comes from the climate change denier camp, more recently seized upon by doomsayers, and it simply isn't true. What is true is that other planet have seasons similar to Earth, for similar reasons, but they go through them on different time scales because of longer orbits and different circumstances. Some examples:
Jupiter: the notion that Jupiter is warming is actually based on predictions, since no warming has actually been observed. Climate models predict temperature increases along the equator and cooling at the poles. It is believed these changes will be catalysed by storms that merge into one super-storm, inhibiting the planet’s ability to mix heat. Sceptical arguments have ignored the fact this is not a phenomenon we have observed, and that the modelled forcing is storm and dust movements, not changes in solar radiation.
Mars: the notion that Mars is warming came from an unfortunate conflation of weather and climate. Based on two pictures taken 22 years apart, assumptions were made that have not proved to be reliable. There is currently no evidence to support claims that Mars is warming at all.
Neptune: observations of changes in luminosity on the surface of both Neptune and its largest moon, Triton, have been taken to indicate warming caused by increased solar activity. In fact, the brightening is due to the planet’s seasons changing, but very slowly. Summer is coming to Neptune’s southern hemisphere, bringing more sunlight, as it does every 164 years.
Pluto: the warming exhibited by Pluto is not really understood. Pluto’s seasons are the least understood of all: its existence has only been known for a third of its 248 -year orbit, and it has never been visited by a space probe. The ‘evidence’ for climate change consists of just two observations made in 1988 and 2002. That’s equivalent to observing the Earth’s weather for just three weeks out of the year. Various theories suggest its highly elliptical orbit may play a part, as could the large angle of its rotational axis. One recent paper suggests the length of Pluto’s orbit is a key factor, as with Neptune. Sunlight at Pluto is 900 times weaker than it is at the Earth.
Having looked at the abstract of the paper to which the video refers: http://arxiv.org/abs/1102.0212 I'm probably being unfair on the author. It seems to be a perfectly legitimate piece of research which has been misinterpreted by cranks with a doom agenda who don't understand it.
The paper deals with tiny details of the Moon's orbit. The Moon's orbit hasn't suddenly changed or been found to be 'wrong'. It's just that more and more accurate measurements lead to theories having to be updated. This is how science works. In fact, this particular anomaly would lead to the Moon being out of position by its own diameter after 500 million years!
Contrast this with he sort of crank postings which appear on Nancy Lieder's Zetatalk website in which someone 'thinks' the Moon is in the wrong part of the sky, based on observations from their kitchen window.
To return to the paper, the author says:
A potentially viable Newtonian candidate would be a trans-Plutonian massive object (Planet X/Nemesis/Tyche)…
On the other hand, the values for the physical and orbital parameters of such a hypothetical body required to obtain the right order of magnitude for de/dt are completely unrealistic. Moreover, they are in neat disagreement with both the most recent theoretical scenarios envisaging the existence of a distant, planetary-sized body and with the model-independent constraints on them dynamically inferred from planetary motions.
So the author has said that the observations would be consistent with the presence of an unknown planet, but other observations rule this out. The cranks have conveniently ignored the latter.
That's how half-baked conspiracy crackpottery starts.
you think you can invalidate Dr. Iorio by saying deviation in Moon's orbital eccentricity isn't real because we now are taking more precise measurements
if you knew anything about Lunar Laser Ranging etc. you'd know how dumb y'all sound when talking about Dr. Iorio's paper too LOL
that's like that guy sydneystargazer who says great quakes are on increase because we now have more seismometers LOL little did he know that all you need to sense a great quake anywhere on earth is ONE SEISMOMETER to tell about the numbers lol
Since you're repeating your posting, I'll repeat my reply.
There's nothing wrong with Dr. Iorio's paper. Maybe you missed the part where he said:
On the other hand, the values for the physical and orbital parameters of such a hypothetical body required to obtain the right order of magnitude for de/dt are completely unrealistic. Moreover, they are in neat disagreement with both the most recent theoretical scenarios envisaging the existence of a distant, planetary-sized body and with the model-independent constraints on them dynamically inferred from planetary motions.
Just to clarify, that means that there is not an unknown planet accounting for the Moon's anomalous eccentricity change.
if you knew anything about Lunar Laser Ranging etc. you'd know how dumb y'all sound when talking about Dr. Iorio's paper too LOL
So you know all about what Dr. Iorio is saying and lunar laser ranging, do you? OK, by exactly how much per year is the Moon's calculated distance deviating from its measured distance? All the required data is there in the paper. Tell us the figure and then I'll check whether you're correct.
data ARE is correct, not data IS
and you want to correct my language and my LOLs
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
this forum is beyond joke…. so do tell us, what part of theoretical physics is your PhD in that gives you authority to "debunk" Dr. Iorio's paper, or even to discuss it?
what a bunch of military nerds on here
so do tell us, what part of theoretical physics is your PhD in that gives you authority to "debunk" Dr. Iorio's paper, or even to discuss it?
I'm not debunking Dr. Iorio's paper, I'm agreeing with it. Can't you read?
So you're not going to answer my question about the Moon's distance then? Why does that not surprise me? You had a chance to show off all your knowledge to we theoretical physicists and PhDs and you've blown it.
I agree with what has been explained.
No planets are out of their orbit. You can every easily check this yourself by going outside and compare the planet with the nearby stars that the astronomy program predicted.
Also the sun raise or sunset could be easily checked by looking at the sun and check the tables and times.
Whackos don't seem to appreciate the amazing accuracy of modern astronomy, the precision with which we can now calculate, observe, and track celestial objects. If the moon's position was as "wrong" as in these stupid stories, it would be headline news, easily noticed by thousands of professional and amateur astronomers.
In my experiences with whackos, I've come to realise that most of them don't know a single astrophysical equation, and have no feel for quantities, scales, ratios, and relative magnitudes. When they hear something is slightly different to what's expected, they don't look at HOW different, they just lump it all together as "wrong". They do this with everything, from frequency of earthquakes and solar flares to axial tilt .. they hear that a quake has "knocked earth off its axis" but never appreciate that this is a miniscule quantity.
Just learning something as simple as the Inverse Square Law would enable the average whacko to see through a lot of their fellow whacko's claims, but they just won't learn, or just can't be bothered. Another thing they could do, is to obtain a free astronomy program, such as Celestia, and see for themselves where celestial objects "should" be. But again, they won't.
why would they be out of orbit to prove elenin has effect? they are all on the opposite side of the sun, look at Dr. Omerbashich's animation:
http://sites.google.com/site/omerbashich/home/A.gif?attredirects=0
what would want to "easily check"? do you anything about how Laser Ranging works? LOL
why would they be out of orbit to prove elenin has effect?
Due to a lack of punctuation and other factors, I'm not even sure what you're asking here.
they are all on the opposite side of the sun, look at Dr. Omerbashich's animation:
That isn't "Dr." Omerbashich's animation. It's a series of screen caps from JPL. And no, they aren't "all on the opposite side of the Sun," assuming you refer to other planets. Did you even look?
what would want to "easily check"?
Obaeyens is referring to the planets, Sun and Moon. You answered this question yourself in your previous sentence, so I'm not sure why you are asking it.
do you anything about how Laser Ranging works? LOL
Why are you laughing?
hey i found it on his site so i assume its his as he doesnt have copyright info (i believe scientists unlike you lol), besides i havent seen that animation anywhere else did you?
of course i looked, and so should everyone else, instead of believing your desinfo here…ALL planets were for the past 4 years aligned FROM THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE SUN lookng from Elenin. Only Saturn came close in 2008/2009 when it experienced the biggest magnetic storm ever recorded.
get the idea? blink blink
LOL
Um if there was a big magnetic storm in 2008/2009 why is it just being brought up now. Somebody's lying.
Timber,
Sorry to be rude but you're barking up the wrong tree,
Bikenbeer is a physicist- anything you have viable evidence for he will tell you whether or not it is remotely possible.
You coming on here and ranting off about things that have nothing to do with 2012 and which can be clearly justified by math & science, whichever form, isnt helping anyone, and wasting these people's time who are trying to help.
Anything which you can rationally explain and want an opinion from people who have devoted part of their lifes to helping others get over nonsence, while learning facts, go ahead and type it out…
As far as you bringing up the same points which they have gone over, I think they are done with you.
As far as you irrationally claiming "Einstein is wrong", do you have any better evidence?
Do you have a theory that will radically change the thoughts of man and invoke inventions beyond his time?
Whatever Einstein figured out, whichever way you want to see it in your head, it is the start of something which has lead us to push the boundaries- just like many before him paved the way for his success.
So why dont you go out and do something with your life? instead of irrationally fear monging.
Thanks
hey i found it on his site so i assume its his as he doesnt have copyright info (i believe scientists unlike you lol), besides i havent seen that animation anywhere else did you?
You can check the JPL website, from which he lifted the frames. Same.
of course i looked, and so should everyone else, instead of believing your desinfo here…ALL planets were for the past 4 years aligned FROM THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE SUN lookng from Elenin.
No, they weren't. Again, did you look?
Only Saturn came close in 2008/2009 when it experienced the biggest magnetic storm ever recorded.
It wasn't "close," and no, it didn't.
get the idea? blink blink
I get the idea that you're very gullible and very confused.
Only Saturn came close in 2008/2009 when it experienced the biggest magnetic storm ever recorded.
I take it you can supply a reference for this "biggest magnetic storm ever recorded". Otherwise, we might just assume you're making it all up.
ALL planets were for the past 4 years aligned FROM THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE SUN lookng from Elenin. Only Saturn came close in 2008/2009 when it experienced the biggest magnetic storm ever recorded.
As far as I am aware, there was no big magnetic storm in 2008/2009. Sorry.
"All science is either physics or stamp collecting." - Ernest Rutherford
Only Saturn came close in 2008/2009 when it experienced the biggest magnetic storm ever recorded.
OK here we go:
Closest point to Saturn was about the end of December 2008. The minimum distance was about 2.659 AU!
It was speeding relative to Saturn at a speed of 12.84 km/s.
Relative to the Sun 13.03 km/s and was at a distance of 10.48 AU from the Sun.
Here are the numbers of all planets at that moment:
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/6116/eleninclosesttosaturnnu.jpg
Here is the position of all planets seen from above at the closest point:
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7254/eleninclosesttosaturnto.jpg
Here is Elenin seen from Saturn, you see here the speed and distance relative to Saturn:
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/9306/eleninclosesttosaturnse.jpg






